[Christrains] NS ICRm Wagons + BR 186 erhältlich!


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    Ich hab ETCS auf der Inntalbahn eingebaut und es funktioniert sehr gut auf dieser Strecke. Finde die lok eigentlich ganz gut nur der Bremshebel is sehr unpraktisch und kein gefühlvolles bremsen möglich.

    Zitat von MCGermanyFan

    Wie ich finde sind deine Argumente einfach kompletter Blödsinn

    Dein Argument aber auch, wenn du eine inzwischen 8 Jahre alte Kuju-BR101 als Vergleich zu Rate ziehst.
    Die neueren 101er von z.B. der Hamburg-Hannover-Strecke haben alle PZB und Sifa.


    Findet euch einfach damit ab, dass sie nicht für deutsche Strecken geeignet ist und auch nicht geeignet sein soll. Ohnehin dürfte es eh recht schwierig sein, für einen Niederländer eine deutsche PZB zu bauen. Genauso gut könnte man fordern, dass z.B. vR ausländische Zugsicherungen implementieren soll.

    Egal, wie weit Draußen man die Wahrheit über Bord wirft, irgendwann wird sie irgendwo an Land gespült.

    Danke 2

    Ok, mein Fehler!
    Bitte entschuldige. Für mich als jahrealten TS-Fuchs ist das alles dasselbe Geraffel: Kuju, RSC, DTG.
    Ist wie beim Schoko-Keks-Riegel Raider, der irgendwann in Twix umbenannt wurde. Dasselbe!
    Man nennt es auch "alter Wein aus neuen Schläuchen".

    Egal, wie weit Draußen man die Wahrheit über Bord wirft, irgendwann wird sie irgendwo an Land gespült.

    Einmal editiert, zuletzt von Prelli ()

    Danke 4

    After reading this discussion i want to give my opinion on the points mentioned above.


    ETCS not working on german routes: I tested the ETCS system on Im koeblitzer mountain route reloaded v3, Hamburg - Hannover, Munich - Ausburg, Three Country Corner Route and Kóln - Koblenz, it worked perfectly on every route.
    Max traction effort and max braking: The Intercity Direct runs in "Sandwich" mode, so that means one locomotive in front, in the mid you have the carriages and then the last locomotive, two locomotives gives 2x the power.
    "Chris could have saved objects": true, he could have done that, but the tried to make the train as realistic as possible.
    Noise while in curves: the train does have those, and they are realistic, search for a cab ride of the TRAXX in the netherlands, you will hear the same noise you hear in Train Simulator.
    A unrealistic beeping noise: Do you even know what ETCS is? that beeping is realistic, in the real thing ETCS also beeps with a new speed limit or when you don't obey the speed limiy.
    "copied sounds from the GTW": if you have ever been on a BR186 you know that they sound the same.
    No PZB/LZB: Chris used all the objects in the cab, he tried to put PZB in but there was not enough space for objects left. You have a BR189 with PZB, we don't have one with ATB. We have a BR186 with ATB, you don't have on with PzB
    "A NSTRAXX doesn't exist": Yes is does, how can you explain the picture i send with this messsage? the dutch one has ATB, i don't think your german version has that. *nixda*

    @Zacharias
    So it's only the sounds. I believe that Chris already stated a few times earlier in several topics that the sounds are simply not his strongest point.
    The solution is simple: You should create your own sound pack for it when it's not to your liking :)


    But truth to be told: the sounds of this model, while not perfect, are quite realistic. Yes, the handle notches are a bit louder than they are in real life (probably done to give the users feedback of their actions, as the real sound is almost non-existent) and the pneumatic braking sound could be a bit better. But the other sounds are quite realistic.
    Those "weird beeps" are exactly as they should be, including the beeps of the ETCS system and the sound of the doors closing. The Dutch Traxx doesn't say 'Sifa' or something like that.
    You are right that the NS Traxx is basically a DABNL version of the 186, but the software differs from the German version. PZB/LZB is switched to passive mode by software and can't be changed to active without a different software version. So while Chris has not included PZB/LZB because of the limitations of the train simulator, it's exactly as it is in real life :D

    Vielleicht kommt die Pzb noch, vielleicht auch nicht. Vielleicht baut vR noch was. Wer kann es wissen. Aber die 186'er mit Kuju und Konsorten zu Vergleichen? Na, ich weiß nicht. Äpfel mit Birnen?

    Mal was ganz was anderes. Der E-Bremssound stimmt ja so noch nicht wirklich oder? Also eigentlich müsste der ja grob wie der Fahrsound klingen, nur eben umgekehrt. Denn zurzeit drehen ja nur ein paar Lüfter hoch so wie sich das anhört.

    Very sad to read that some can do nothing more than complain. *drunter*
    This is one of the most advanced and realistic locos available in TS at the moment. <3
    Chris did a great job! 8o
    And from day one that the project was announced he has said that version 1 wouldn't come with PZB. *achtung*
    So there's absolutely no ground to complain about that!
    He made the Dutch NS Traxx, not a German, Austrian, Swiss or whatever version.


    I too hope he'll make a version with PZB (like he did with the Flirt), but we'll have to wait and see.
    In this version there's simply no room for it due to the limitions in TS.

    actually complaining always happens on forums, the more fun part is that there are also people complaining about details that are actually correct simulated regarding reality, with input from real train drivers, but still its wrong for them :) actually on forums every person see realistic on his own way, and this keep the discussions going on, some are happy outside the box some not that is life.


    call a addon moste advanced is for people/customers actually not possible , every developer put his advanced things in his details some make 500 lines script for just a brake lever so it work like it is some put 200 lines in a simple pzb where others make 2000 for advanced simulation. some rebuild on every train the brake lever some just use the same again, i can also built 1000 of basic smal lua things and call it most advanced because every button do something. and this is a example what i tell.

    I bought the ChrisTrains NS Traxx mainly for the NMBS Class 28 wich is also used for freight. To be honest, I haven't even try the wagons, I have deleted them and also the NS engines. This NS Traxx is clearly not a generic Traxx (BTW vR BR 189 only have PZB/LZB even if it's supposed to have other safty systems). It was made to be used for the NL IC train in sandwich composition (so with a Traxx at each end).


    What is wrong if you want to drive NMBS Class as a standard freight engine on any route :
    - AFB limits the traction to 300 KN according to previous answers (300 KN / 2 due to only one engine), so heavy train have very slow acceleration. So drive without ?
    - Without AFB, traction with a single engine soars to an unrealistic 600 KN on screen. Wheels slip all time. Handling the power with T- / const / T+ is very tricky.
    In both case, it's not enjoyable...


    What is wrong in any case
    - Amper display did not change according to line voltage up to 2750 A with 15 kV (max is about 600 A with 15 Kv).


    So don't buy the NS Class 186 and ICRmh wagons if you want a generic or a DE Traxx MS. This is supposed to be used as a bundle with ICRmh on NS routes or you will be (very) desapoointed. I have not purchased a bad engine, I have purchased a specific engine for an expected generic/multipurpose one... vR have a Traxx MS planned (no more information about model 185 or 186) and it should be more *german friendly*.

    Zitat von Maik Goltz

    185.2 und 186.2 kommen auch noch, aber die brauchen halt deutlich mehr Zeit. Und Zeit haben wir grad nicht über.

    An alle Deutschen, die sich beschweren, dass die 186 für (größtenteils) niederländische Train Simulator-Nutzer erstellt wurde... *teetrink*

    @ES64F4 It's basically the same what I said in one of my previous posts.


    Would it be even possible to change the ammeter according to the selected voltage in the train simulator? I think (but please correct me if I'm wrong) that those values are hard coded per model and it would only be a visual fix.
    Second question is: is the 600 kN really reached with a single engine, or is that a visual issue only? So is there a difference in performance between single and double engine? If there is not, than that is obviously a bug.


    I'm afraid that the handling of the +/const/- is a train simulator limit. In reality, the handle will return to the const position automatically. From what I understand, creating that in train simulator is possible, but only with one 'resting' position. The Traxx has 4 of those in a single handle: EB const, 0, T const and T max.


    The 300 kN AFB limit is a bit of an issue. As you said, it is a regulatory issue, not a technical one. @ChrisTrains has obviously chosen to implement it hard coded. Maybe he could remove it in a future update?


    A bit more in depth detail about that 300 kN and the AFB:
    the 7J software that has been in use for the Intercity Direct trains was never built for a 'sandwich' consist (engine - coaches - engine). The traction distribution on both engines is simply 50/50, which would be right for a double headed train.
    With that sandwich consist, it is a bit of a problem, as the rear engine could push the coaches from the tracks, with a quite higher risk when the front engine would suddenly stop working (for whatever reason).
    For that reason, the maximum allowed tractive effort is 150 kN for the rear engine, which automatically limits the front engine to 150 kN too. And there you have the 300 kN power limit.
    This is fixed in the new 9.4 software, that is currently being rolled-out on the NS Traxx engines. They have a special Sandwich mode, which distributes the traction as 66/33 when accelerating and the other way around (33/66) when using the EB brake. That way, it is no longer an issue and the 150 kN limit on the rear engine is also automatically enforced.

    I'd say this is all good discussion.
    The single biggest thing to understand in TS20xx is that there is no way via scripts to limit traction - or even determine the exact amount of traction being sent to / given by any engine. The game simply doesn't allow it. It's all done by "faking" it in scripts. So when you put the throttle to 100% in the cab, you're really doing nothing other than telling a script that you want "most power". The script then takes that, and spends 500 lines of code altering it to look like it's actually limiting the engine to a certain power output.
    Generally speaking, in the Dutch version, AFB on is a limit of 300kN and is required for passenger operation with two engines in 'sandwich' mode. For freight, the AFB would normally be turned off (I think) which then gives access to all the engine's power.


    @ES64F4 mentions a lot of wheelslip. In reality the engine has software that prevents this by dropping the traction amount to each bogie until the wheelslip stops. As with the throttle - this isn't something that the game supports, so to prevent wheelslip in the game, you either need to manually give less power, or I need to try to figure out how to drop the power automatically when I detect wheelslip in the script.


    I don't mind the criticism. Because this saying is true : you can please all the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time, but you can never please all the people all the time :D

    I have do the followings :
    - Modded Inpput Mapper allow me (with keyboard) to set AFB on/off any time, switch MFD between Traction/System, set ISO/ETCS/ATB, change line voltage on-fly, validate change.
    - Edited texture to have 300 kN max on the main MDF


    Now, I can drive my Traxx NMBS nearly like I wish (knowing that some stuff is not possible IRL) as a single engine.