Beiträge von ChrisTrains

My hosting company had an outage last night. That’s why my site was not available. Of course it happened while I was alseep so I didnt find out about it until this morning. It should all be working again now.

A quick explanation : when someone makes a repaint, they copy the BIN file from that point in time, to create their repaint. When a new release comes out, the BIN file has changed - for example new controls, re-arranged controls, different control values, different child objects etc. So when you try to apply an old repaint to the new model, all the items in the BIN files that have changed, are the reason the old repaint no longer works.

I try to minimise this as much as possible but with so many 'deep' changes like I had to do in the GTW, it guarantees repaints get broken

Rolling starts are even worse because the saved file might have data in it for controls that do not exist any more, and certainly is missing data for new controls that weren't in the old model.

Well - I actually have some good news on this topic. SBB have been quietly working with me over the last couple of weeks to accommodate the peculiarity of my situation - in that this is an old product and the Thurbo GTW is also not the primary focus of the update (the primary focus is of course all the Dutch versions). I have been granted a one-time exception, specifically to ChrisTrains, very specifically to the GTW update. This means that I can leave the functionality as it was. We have made a couple of compromises on both sides (a couple of changes that most players will not notice or care about), but I'm pleased that they have afforded me the same courtesy they did to other developers for older products, in terms of not having to retroactively alter the GTW. Note that the terms of the modified license agreement still apply to anything new that I would build for SBB.

I was surprised and very pleased when I opened my email this morning as I honestly did not think that I was going to get any flexibility on this issue, but this compromise is a great lifeline for me.

Zitat von tom87

No problem. When Matt writes a long post, I will always read it. Matt is kind of a legend in train simulation at this point: a real rail enthusiast and he does not beat around the bush with his comments, if it is possible (NDA, Company secrets). Once again, I agree with the statement he made today.

Same here. I paraphrased his comment in my knowledgebase article. His comment about going against the operator's wishes is 100% accurate and I can tell a lot of people don't get that. They don't understand NDA's and license agreements - simply saying "paint it white and pretend it's not SBB" is something a payware developer simply cannot do

If I get any updates from my SBB contact on grandfathering-in the old GTW model without changes, I'll be sure to let everyone know. DTG and RailWorx got the exception - I don't see why they wouldn't consider me too.

tom87 do you have a link to Matt Peddleston's post on the DTG forum ?

edit: found it - sorry.

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For what it's worth, I *am* trying to get the same sort of agreement in place that DTG has, re: not retroactively changing older trains. Whether this bears fruit or not is yet to be seen. I thought it better to warn people what to expect in the worst case, as I've been waiting a long time on the most recent reply from SBB and it feels like it's not going to happen.

It’s so weird why they’re being so full-on about stuff like door indicator lights.

For what it’s worth I’m still discussing grandfathering in my old model as I have no way to change any already-installed products. If anything changes I’ll post it here. But my model now basically has blank screens with no working buttons and the only player-controllable items are accelewte, brake, cab light, train lighting and destination boards 😔

Zitat von tom87

From what Christrains has shared in this thread, it does not seem like they are moving an inch from their position. As i stated on the last page, from a cumstomers point of view (and from your view) this is very shady. Are you (and DTG, Rivet etc.) getting back amounts of cash from the original licenses you and DTG/Rivet etc. paid in the first place? Because if they suddenly decide, you can´t build the content as intented for the customer anymore, they should return the money from the original license agreement.

I can't talk about other people's licensing agreements but mine is based upon gross sales of any product including their logo, which for me is just the Stadler GTW. So I'm not in quite such a bad position as people like Paul over at TrainWorx, who has basically given up because of this.

The bad thing about this is - as an independent developer - I just can't afford to start processing refunds for models sold years ago. It's outside the statute of limitation and it's outside my EULA anyway, but if people really start to push, it's going to basically force me out of the game too so all my Dutch stuff would have to go. So I would ask the community to please not do that to me.

There is of course always the option to simply not install my latest version. There's absolutely nothing I can do about all the products already installed. But going forwards I must comply with the amended licensing terms.

tom87 off-topic - you’ll like the next mid life update I’m working on then.

Back on-topic.

There's a lot of conjecture about what happened to cause this but I can't discuss anything other than the new limits imposed on me by the amended license agreement

It's not just Sifa / PZB. They really do not want anything other than acceleration and braking.

I feel really bad for the Swiss community -I've spent a lot of time in Switzerland this year and I really start to get an appreciation for their trains. From my perspective, I can't "dodge" the issue by doing unbranded trains because I have an established history of the Thurbo GTW being in the pack. I did ask SBB about this and they basically said "it's obviously a Swiss version of the train, for Swiss routes, so no, that would not be acceptable".

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Zitat von Kim_olesen1

"Realistically; has anyone ever stolen a train and driven it with the knowledge of a simulation? I highly doubt it!!! After all is so much more to driving a train than ZUB and Sifa. Also what’s stopping developers to make a DB BR 189 (or other trains that run on the Swiss network) with ZUB? That would be outside SBBs licencing anyway, so players could still drive with it. Just not on a SBB branded train."

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Zitat von tom87

Jasper I was going to ask if this will also effect TSW.

Yes, it will. All SBB vehicles in all simulation games.

Ok - I'll keep the list as it is then and just add pre-setting for scenarios and AI trains

I do have another question. For the S Bahn lines, do the trains ever show intermediate stations? For example the S8 line from Schaffhausen to St Johann. Would the sign on the front of the train show any intermediate stations like Romanshorn?

Or would I just put the main stations as listed here : https://www.thurbo.ch/fileadmi…ennetzplanThurbo-2022.pdf

For example S2 would only have Altstatten SG and Nesslau-Neu St. Johann?

For example S2 would just be

For reference this is the current list:

Extrazug

Dienstzug

Probefahrt

Nicht einsteigen

Geschlossen

S1 St. Gallen

S1 Wil

S2 St. Gallen

S2 Altstätten SG

S3 St. Gallen

S3 Herisau

S3 St. Margrethen

S4 Altstätten SG

S4 Buchs SG

S4 Nesslau

S4 Sargans

S4 St. Gallen

S4 Wattwil

S5 Weinfelden

S5 St. Gallen

S5 Bischofszeil

S6 Rapperswil

S6 Linthal

S7 Rorschach

S7 Weinfelden

S7 Romanshorn

S8 Schaffhausen

S8 Nesslau-Neu St. Johann

S8 St. Gallen

S8 Kruezlingen

S8 Romanshorn

S8 Stein am Rhein

S9 Wil

S9 Wattwil

S10 Weinfelden

S10 Wil

S12 Chur

S12 Sargans

S14 Konstanz

S14 Weinfelden

S22 Bülach

S22 Schaffhausen

S22 Singen

S26 Bauma

S26 Rüti ZH

S26 Winterthur

S29 Stein am Rhein

S29 Winterthur

S30 Weinfelden

S30 Winterthur

S33 Schaffhausen

S33 Winterthur

S35 Wil

S35 Winterthur

S41 Bülach

S41 Waldshut

S41 Winterthur

S55 St. Gallen

S55 Weinfelden

S81 Herisau

S81 Wittenbach

Buchs SG

Sargans

Rorschach

Romanshorn

Ziegelbrücke

Pfäffikon SZ

Rapperswil

Landquart

S Wil

S St. Gallen

S Sargans

Zitat von Meleo

ChrisTrains

It is stated in the Wikipedia article that mainly the SBB uses that system. That system came into effect with new trains around 2008, refurbished trains followed later.

Thurbo does not apply that system with their GTWs. They have one number only.

Ok perfect - that's what I need to know. Thank you so much !

FortyCS

I think I understand now.

So unit 755-4 would have 94 85 7526 755-4 CH-THB written on the outside of both end wagons - this is sort of the "whole train code".

BUT the ACTUAL UIC codes would probably be:

A wagon (driving car front): 94 85 1526 755-7

D wagon (middle passenger): 94 85 3526 755-3

C wagon (motor): 94 85 5526 755-8

B wagon (driving car rear): 94 85 6526 755-2

Does that make sense?

You can see the external UIC codes and train numbers in this video really clearly:

Zitat von Meleo

Apparently Thurbo doesn‘t apply that system, at least not on their GTWs. They have a unique UIC code for the whole multiple unit, but not for its parts.

Ok that's great - I was 95% sure this was the case but thanks for looking into this. It's a huge help.

Thanks SteuerwagenSchmiede that's what I suspected. Everything else in your description matches how I've always had PZB. I can make the change to remove the voice - that will be a nice improvement for sure. I've also had a couple of Dutch drivers confirm this in a discord chat - they drive across the border with PZB so they're good sources of information for me too.

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Zitat von KiDmorbid

This was an example for the incorrectness.

It's correct like your said:

Every time when you hit the acknowledge button it should make this beep noise independent from 1000 hz magnet.

As I said it's correct in the RS1 and Flirt 3.

Ok perfect - thanks for clarifying

Time to revive a VERY old topic.

I'm working on updates to the GTW for my Dutch product but I wanted to include a few fixes in the Thurbo version (so please do not explode with requests for new stuff - this is a mid-life update so it's not going to be hundreds of hours of work). I've already improved a few items but I have two questions:

First question I have is about UIC codes.

In most European countries, the UIC codes are per-wagon, so an electric multiple unit with 4 wagons would have 4 UIC codes. In Switzerland it *looks* like they have one UIC code for the entire multiple unit. I've seen a few photos of different ends of the same RABe526 where the UIC code was the same on both end wagons.

Is this right? Do SBB typically use a single UIC code for an entire multiple unit (I could see that, given that you wouldn't typically ever split the components).

This is a good example :

The identifer on the front wagon is 773-7 and it's the same on the back wagon - 773-7 - which then shows a UIC code of 94 85 7526 773-7 CH-THB. If they were using unique wagon identifiers, then the front and back wagons could not both be 773-7

This is the source of this question and confusion.

Second question comes from a reply in 2018 from KiDmorbid : "There are many things wrong in the current version of the PZB in the ODEG and Thurbo GTW e.g. there is no "Zugbeeinflussung"-voice, its a beep like in the RS1 or Flirt 3. And you always hear "Zugbeeinflussung" BEFORE you hit the acknowledge button, when you pass an active 1000 Hz magnet."

I've already updated the PZB to be the same as the RS-1 but I can make some other minor changes. For this one,I would like clarification on this because as I understood it, the 1000hz magnet has NO audible warning in the cab, ONLY when you acknowledge - which is how I have it coded right now. All other PZB explanations (written and video) would seem to agree I have it right - no audible warning in the cab)

You're welcome

I'm going to put the 'XL' patch on my helpdesk so it will be available for the public.

This is where the compromise comes in - for the Meridian version, every wagon is different - they're not just flipped because the equipment on the roof is in the correct place but the doors are not. For the 6-wagon XL versions, there should only be pantographs on one car and the A and B wagons should have their doors at the back, not the front.

That's the problem with the Flirt3 - it's "modular" - which basically means that while most people think it's the same, no two operators have the same options and you end up with hundreds of variations

Ok. There is a patch for the community to try. It's not "public" yet - it's shared on my personal OneDrive:

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ar_8LTvkckf1nRpbZJO6Md8rknAc?e=nYQH52

This adds a new wagon type "Suwex DXL" with a new exterior and interior texture, new passengers, and an example new 6-wagon consist called "Stadler Flirt 3 Suwex XL", with wagons in the order A-C-DXL-DXL-E-B

It is a bit of a compromise, obviously, but I think this should get you all what you need to start repainting longer versions of the train. If this is basically a good patch, let me know and I'll make it public on my helpdesk.