Livery Designer: "Unlimitierte" Ebenen

Zitat von Maik Goltz

Yep, i know it that bad, that i don't need a .exe to modify a .exe to modify the max layer count. Simply injecting a new number into a games var is not that smart. Typical modders behaviour without to care what they do, they just do it. Not respecting the creators work or even the EULAs is more BS (your wording) than my babbling about it. I just took an eye into the source code of the livery editor to verify i could be right with my guessing about how it will self destroy after a significant change to the core. And as i can see (you not, because you should not have any access to the source code of it) it can destroy reskins with the modded layer amount and will not destroy liveries with the max layer count of 300. It's like with bridges. They have a max acceptable weight that they can take. You can put on more for sure, but you can expect the bridge being destroyed after a while doing it. So your mod will brake sooner or later for sure, but not the users liveries made with the standard layer max count.

Sure you dont need to modify .exe if you have access to the source code while rest of the users are ignored even when DTG promised before that those 300 layers are there only for the start test and they will slowly increase it... its been one year... what is for them slowly ? 100 layers every 5 years ? If they deliver stuff which they promised then users will dont have to mod the game (editor, multiplayer, many other features which are still missing, planner 2.0, livery 2.0, etc...). Look, i have nothing against you i respect your work (sure its not really perfect, there is some mistakes and bugs too which are still not fixed). Dont understand why you are against the modders as we are trying to make the game more interesting to the other players - so far Matt and even Adam or Sam are respecting our works and they are even amazed what the community can do. I dont know how many PC users are playing just vanilla version of the game, for me without the mods the game will be already death (and im sure im not the only one who got the same opinion). And so far for that layers mod... if DTG dont like it im sure they will already remove it from the forum and even send me some warning. The mod is not breaking the game, removing or modding the protection and so far i can see that players are now more enjoying that Livery Editor as they can finally finish some stunning work.

Seems you are already on a rant against TSW and DTG and maybe me. Not the level i will discuss further with you. But need to clear some things before i stop talking:

Zitat von muff

Sure you dont need to modify .exe if you have access to the source code

I didn't modified any line of code or whatever. I can't even compile the game. I can simply read the source, nothing else. I used a console command to modify the layer count. This can be done by any PC user who has unlocked the console input (lots have done this i guess). It should even be possible via the .ini settings. I'm really wondering why you didn't found that more simple solution yet.

Zitat von muff

Look, i have nothing against you i respect your work (sure its not really perfect, there is some mistakes and bugs too which are still not fixed).

Thanks, but what bugs you are talking about?

Zitat von muff

Dont understand why you are against the modders

That is not the case. I am not against modders or modding per se. But i don't like some modder's approach how to do the mods, basically around the set requirements and rules. Your exe mod is against the rules. That is what i disapprove in gerneral. Your mod has the ability to brake the game for users who used the mod, in the future, not now. And when it happens it is not you who will earn the shitstorm, but the developers. And that is what i really hate about it. It is always the wrong person who has to carry the can for this type of behaviour from some unknown/anonymous/hiding people.

Its funny, for your first part... injecting DLL into the game for unlocking the console is basically the same like what i did (changing the variable in exe file). Both is against the EULA as you are still changing code but its loaded in memory - same way like some game cracks for emulation the protection or cheats peoples are getting banned from Steam. So one way you complain about that modding exe but then you are completely OK to unlocking console with injecting DLL which you dont even know what else is the DLL doing ? Great job

And talking about command... i guess you got dev build with commands as some of the commands are not working in normal release version otherwise i will use that MaxLayerCount command or is there any other command for that ? As i cant really find any other command for Livery Editor exept some for better rendering textures. But then i will be happy to hear what is different between increasing the layers by command and changing variable in .exe as with your logic both ways will break livery with some core update.

Zitat von muff

Its funny, for your first part... injecting DLL into the game for unlocking the console is basically the same like what i did (changing the variable in exe file). Both is against the EULA as you are still changing code but its loaded in memory - same way like some game cracks for emulation the protection or cheats peoples are getting banned from Steam. So one way you complain about that modding exe but then you are completely OK to unlocking console with injecting DLL which you dont even know what else is the DLL doing ?

I didn't said i'm ok with it. I said i know lots of people doing it already. I'm not even ok with using .ini changes because this often makes problems as we can see. Not problems with the game as they play it, but when there are updates and version changes. Lots of threads on the DTG forums were about a not working game because of ini modifications. I play (when i rarely play) TSW without the use of any mod or ini changes. I play it as it is, vanilla. I don't miss much. And what i miss, will come at a later stage of the game. It is evolving over time, not in a hurry.

Ich denke jeder User welcher sich eine modifizierte ".exe" herunterlädt ist sich bewusst was er damit macht. Er verstößt im ersten Punkt in der Regel gegen Lizenzbestimmungen welche er zuvor zugestimmt hat. Und er setzt sich der "Gefahr" aus, dass mit jedem Update seine bis dahin durch Eingriffe / Veränderungn des Spieles (ohne den Kern zu kennen) gemachten Änderungen defekt und/oder nicht mehr nutzbar sind und die vielen Stunden an freier Zeit sinnfrei werden können. Wir haben ja bei dem letzen Update erlebt welche Anzahl an User auf "DTG" geschimpft haben und dann hat sich rausgestellt sie hatten Mods installiert welche der eigentliche Auslöser für einige "Probleme" war.

Ob jemand dieses "Risiko" eingehen möchte oder nicht muss jeder für sich selbst entscheiden. Ich würde mir jedoch manchmal bei einigen Mods wünschen wenn die jeweiligen Ersteller im Detail darauf hinweisen was passieren könnte wenn man Mods einsetzt und dies auf eigenes Risiko geschieht. Etwas mehr Aufklärung wäre wirklich ein großer Vorteil und würde so manches Missverständnis verhindern.

Es ist denke ich nicht notwendig zu erwähnen wie ich die Moddingszene um den TSW wirklich bemerkenswert finde. In einer meiner TSW Installationen nutze ich ebenfalls modifizierte Dateien aus dem Forum, alleine schon weil mich interessiert wie hier wirklich mit vielen Umwegen und "Try and error" versucht wird Inhalte zu verändern ohne das Programm überhaupt in seinem vollen Umfang zu verstehen. Wie auch, man hat ja nur durch bestimmte Methoden die Möglichkeit an Infos zu gelangen... Und wie diese Methoden zu bewerten sind dürfte auch jedem klar sein welcher sich auch nur im Ansatz mit Modding und Entwicklungmal eine Sekunde beschäftigt hat.

Warum Muff sich irgendwie "angegriffen" fühlt ist mir jedoch in diesem Thread ein Rätsel offen gesagt.

Ich glaube nicht, das jeder User weiß war er macht, wenn jemand eine modifizierte exe runterlädt. Und der Eigentliche Programmcode hat nur DTG und nicht Drittanbieter wie zum Beispiel TSG.

xtrame90: Ich kann mir offen gesagt nur schwer vorstellen, dass User etwas von Webseiten runterladen ohne im Hinterkopf zu haben was Mods bedeuten bzw. dass diese in der Regel in Spieldateien eingreifen werden und auch müssen um eine Veränderung in diesem Umfang zu erzeugen. Zum anderen Punkt, wenn man nicht hinter die Kulissen schauen kann ist es halt schwer zu beurteilen wer welche Daten als Entwickler einsehen kann oder eben nicht. Aber wenn ich den Aussagen von Maik Glauben schenken kann, kann man schon ableiten wie tief er Einblicke in den TSW hat...