Vor- und Hauptsignale (SBB) - Link placement

**TrainworX** · 27. Mai 2013

Hi,

Yet another question from me ..

I thought I had SBB signal link placements right but now I am starting to wonder...

Example: I have a 40 Km/h area up ahead, I have a hauptsignal at the start of that area which shows 40 (green/yellow). That's fine.

Before that I have a hauptsignal with vorsignal. The haupt signal shows green (no speedlimit) which is correct but the vorsignal needs to show one green and one yellow (next signal 40 km/h). The problem is that the vorsignal shows 2 greens (no speedlimit).

Where do I need to put the link of the vorsignal?

1. Before all hauptsignal links
2. Between the hauptsignal 0 and 1 link
3. After the hauptsignal o and 1 links (and obviously before the next hauptsignal at the 40km/h area)

I thought it was option 3 but it doesn't seem to work correctly...

Probably difficult to answer with this info but maybe anybody can explain me the 'general' rules..

Thanx!

StS · 27. Mai 2013

In prinziple the Link 0 of the signals next to the Signal. Link 0, the first Link, without any number on it.
Mainsignals should have the link 0 a little bit bevor the Signal. KI-Trains are stopping at Link 0, so it looks better.
It need not to set the Link of the Vorsignal next to the Mainsignal, the Information will be running through the track.
I think you should download the HV-Signals here. There is a Demoroute and a manual how to set Signals. There you can lern a lot. Because the basics are all the same.
Main signals or combisignals have one or more numberd Links from 1 to n.
This links behind a cutting after the swich at the track. here .
If you want, set some Signals and give the Route to me (over a PM). I will have a look, So you get soon a feeedback to avoid mistakes.
StS

**TrainworX** · 27. Mai 2013

Thanx StS,

I tried some things and found that some of the vorsignal links were placed to far back. This normally doesn't happen but I have multiple locations where I use a separate haupt- and vorsignal on a portal, that's where the problems occur. I moved the links to option 2 in my original post and that seems to work.

Thank you for offering to help checking out my route! I will fix what I can and then send you my route so you can check it for obvious faults.

Thanx again for all your help

StS · 28. Mai 2013

The Link of the Vorsignal will read the Information of the next Mainsignal to show wich Situation is there. In direktion of driving the Link 0 of the Vorsignal have to be before Link 0 of the Link 0 of the Main signal. --> Option 1!
In Option 2 I understand that you set the VS1 link 1 behind MS 1 Link 0 and befor MS 1 LInk 1. This is completele wrong. In this case you get the information of the MS 2 or MSVS 3 behind MS 1.

VS 1 Link 0 ---1000m----MS 1 Link 0 ---\---MS 1 Link 1--- more than 1000m---VS 2 Link 0---1000m ---MS 2 Link 0---
...............................................\--MS 1 Link 2----1000m-----MSVS 3 Link 0-------------

Link 0 always near to its Signal.

-- Track
... Helping line for the scetch (no track)
\ Switch

VS Vorsignal
MS Mainsignal
MSVS Combisignal

If the distant between Signals is to short to set Vorsignal between, then use Combisignals.
I hope you understand now the princip of setting the links of following signals.
By the way: do you use the Signals of the SBB route? I do not have this route.

StS

**TrainworX** · 29. Mai 2013

Hi StS,

I have SBB route 1 and are using it's signals on my route.. So no possibilities to send you the route then..
Back to text, screenshots and pictures than

Your explanation above is clear to me. I normally follow these rules and it's all OK. But I have the general situation that is shown in this video (real situation)

http://youtu.be/7s6B7mR12bY

I need a haupt- and vorsignal on the portal. There is no combisignal for that in the SBB route assets. So I need to put a separate 3Li1T and VR1T on the portal.

Doing that works fine when I put the vorsignal link in front of the hauptsignal links (see picture), I changed that after your remarks on this subject.

Now there is only a problem when the situation is as follows:

The left 2T signal shows normal speed (straight) or 40 km/h (when diverging). The right HS's show 60km/h (2 green). Where do I put the vorsignal link? It needs to show that the next hauptsignal is 60km/h (2green1yellow).

Position -A- seems faulty (between HS links).
Position -B- would be ok as long as the switch is not diverging...

If all fails I am probably forced to use combisignals on the gound. But maybe you know a way around this

Viele Grussen,
Paul

StS · 29. Mai 2013

In this case you have to use Combisignals with two links. In real there is a "Signalbox", this will manage the Signals. RW works with links to get the Information for the Signals. The Signalbox is in the Script of the Combisignal, in all other RW Signalsystems. The SBB1 assets have no combisignals? thats very poor.
Setting sepearate signals at one Place in Rw will show dangerous Signalpictures.
eg. in the block between Signal A an B is a train. Behind Signals B it is free. So the main Signal shows red and the Vorsignal shows green. This is not allowed. When the Mainsignal is red, the Vorsignal has to be dark or shows Yellow-Yellow (Info here, page 108 Item 5.1.6), to avoid misunterstandings.
In the dark and by snow, grrrr.
Then set no vorsignal at place A, set one after the Link 1 or 2 of Signal A and before the Signals at place B, try to get a maximum distance to have a chance to stop at Signal B.
Move Signal A and the swich or Signal B away to get a chance to stop the train.
StS

**TrainworX** · 29. Mai 2013

Hi StS,

SBB route 1 does have combisignals! But only on a pole, not suspended (on a portal). Well that is also not 100% true, there are some, but only for many tracks (einfahrsignale). Would it be possible to use for instance a 7T-VR combisignal for 1 or 2 Tracks (just placing link 1 on the straight track and 2-7 on the other track)? It's is obviously a dirty solution but still.... If it works...

Else I must defer to the groundbased combi's or fiddle around with the signalling keeping your suggestions in mind. I have little room for all this at this location so it will be a challenge!

I did see some cases of green under red as you mentioned, but only in the opposite track/direction. Don't want that anyway and now I know why that happened.

Thank you StS!!

StS · 29. Mai 2013

If there is a 7T Combi, there is a possibility to reduce the links by making a own copy. Please look in the manual, I gave you the Link in Posts 2.
Deutsche_HV-Signale_V2.2.pdf, page 38.
Normaly the Lua scripts are working for 1 to nn Links.
StS

**TrainworX** · 29. Mai 2013

Ok I will look at that! For now I have replaced all 'double' signals with a 5LiVR3T version and just put 2 or 3 links at nearly the same spot where needed.

That works! everything runs much smoother now!

But as you suggest, making my own 1T or 2T version is something I will definitely do next.

With this my route is almost ready to share. I am so sorry you won't have any use for it, not owning SBB route 1..

There is another thing I wonder about.. I will make a new post for that one because it's unrelated.

Cheers!
Paul

Vor- und Hauptsignale (SBB) - Link placement

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