[HRQ] ES64U Taurus (1016/1116/1216)


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    Mal kurz Offtopic...

    Zitat von fsclips

    Macht ja auch viel mehr Sinn eine grosse Flotte von nur einer Lok zu unterhalten als fuer jede Aufgabe eine eigene Flotte. Da lassen sich viele Kosten sparen.

    Welchen "Sinn" es - von der Kostenersparnis mal abgesehen - macht, auf ein Einheitsmodell zu setzen, hat in den letzten Jahren ja die Berliner S-Bahn vortrefflich vorgeführt. Es mag sein, dass es auf den ersten Blick Kosten spart. Kommt es aber zu einem Problem mit der Baureihe, ist die am dampfen. Ich freue mich schon drauf, wenn die 143er ge"Bender"t sind und der Talent 2 seine wahren Probleme offenbart....


    Tobias

    rolf Ja die Oesterreicher duerfen das :)


    Und manchmal sind die internationalen Zuege extra kurz :P


    Tobias Naja, einen neuen Typ einzufuehren dauert mehrere Jahre und in dieser Zeit zeigen sich schnell die Kinderkrankheiten. Bis die Firma dann von diesem Typ "abhaengig" ist sind die alle aus der Welt geschaffen. Sieht man ja auch blendend in der Luftfahrt. Manche airlines betreiben einfach eine Flotte aus nur einem Flugzeugtyp. Da gibts keine Probleme denn die werden alle in der Einfuehrungsphase ausgemerzt.
    Und der Taurus ist ja nicht mehr sooo neu sondern schon recht lange bei der OEBB im Dienst.


    So, und jetzt sag ich nix mehr, denn wir schweifen hier ziemlich vom Thema ab. :whistling:


    LG


    Stefan

    Noch mal kurz off...

    Zitat von tobiasberger

    Ich freue mich schon drauf, wenn die 143er ge"Bender"t sind und der Talent 2 seine wahren Probleme offenbart....

    Was soll denn da noch kommen???
    Die sind doch noch nicht mal richtig in Betrieb, weil es hier eklatante Mängel gab und das EBA die nicht zugelassen hat (hatte), so dass die Strecken wo die mal fahren sollten zum großen Teil heute noch drauf warten bis auf paar wenige positive Ausnahmen. Die stehen massig auf Halde zur Zeit (noch) deswegen. Ich weiß ja nicht was da noch kommen soll! ;)
    Sehr schön auch dort alles nachzulesen für den Interessierten: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_Talent_2


    Zitat von fsclips

    Und manchmal sind die internationalen Zuege extra kurz

    Ja, der Typ der da hinten am Wagen hängt ist wahrscheinlich für die Rückwärtsfahrt zuständig, weil sie grad keine Steuerwagen übrig hatten scheinbar.
    Ich hoffe nur er hat genug zu Essen dabei und fällt nicht vom Stengel, und es wird ihm nicht zu kalt oder so bei seinem Job. ;)


    ok. Off Ende.

    Jetzt muss ja dann nur noch die PZB richtig gemacht werden (vor allem dieses peinliche Sifa Zwangsbremsung bei einer PZB Zwangsbremsung und das man sich mit der Sifa Taste aus der Zwangsbremsung befreien muss....), die Kupplungswerte könnten dann auch mal stimmen und dann halt noch paar "Kleinigkeiten"...
    Vielleicht hat ja mal einer Lust, das denen mitzuteilen. ;)

    Ganz liebe Grüße an alle meine Fans im Forum!
    ------------------------------------------------------
    Quality-Pöbel since 2011

    Hi,


    Und schon wieder zwei neue updates habe gleich die DB Version ausprobiert und war bestens überrascht das ,


    höhrt sich richtig Klasse an *jippy*


    Und die noch nicht auklappbaren ausenspiegel sind auch supergelungen " hoffenlich kann man die mal ausklppbar machen *ja* "


    Auf jeden fall weiter so *klatschen*


    Gruß

    Auch ein Feedback von mir.


    Eigentlich ganz gelungen. Aber dann gibt es schon sehr gravierende Bugs.


    Contra:
    - PZB spielt verrückt (!). Bei überfahren eines aktiven Magneten ertönt von SELBST die Sprachausgabe Zugbeeinflussung und die Prüfung fängt an, OHNE dass ich Wachsam betätigt habe.
    - PZB Zwangsbremsung fehlerhafte Ausgabe: Es ertönt "Sifa Zwangsbremsung" und man kann sich aus der Zwangsbremsung mit der Sifa Taste befreien
    - Kein PZB restriktiver Modus
    - Ab und zu bekomme ich bei einem GRÜNEN Signal eine 1000Mhz Beeinflussung - wieso?
    - Bremsen sind falsch eingestellt. Ich war selbst auf einem Taurus. 1. Sind Elektrische und Zugbremse im Cab gekoppelt, 2. Hier wird zuerst gewartet, bis die E-Bremse die volle Leistung hat und DANN wird erst die Zugbremse dazugeschalten. Das ist Falsch. Richtig wäre ZUERST die Zugbremse, und dann kommt die Ebremse Dazu. Wäre nur alleine die E-Bremse würde der Taurus in ner Kurve aus der Schiene hüpfen, da die E-Bremse derartig stark ist und die hier beim RW auch ganz zürückgezogen wird.



    Neutral:
    - Sound ist noch verbesserungswürdig...wenn ich Beschleunige und den Hebel zurückziehe hört der Sound einfach auf. Der Motorsound sollte trotzdem weiterlaufen...der Sound vom Horn ist auch nicht der Burner. Der Typische Sound beim Panto-hochnehmen gibts auch -nicht
    - Panto geht zu schnell hoch


    Pro:
    - Modell ist gelungen
    - Sifa funktioniert recht ordentlich
    - Zügige Updates
    - Funktionen wie AFB usw. Funktionieren.


    Hoffe ich kann den Autor damit erreichen :)



    ///English for the author of this model


    Contra:
    - The PZB is very crazy. After driving over an active magnet the monitoring activates by itself, I don't have to Press PZB Wachsam (acknowledge) for it. (But I get the emergency brake when I don't press it)
    - The Sound of the PZB Emergency brake is wrong, it Says SIFA ZWANGSBREMSUNG and you can clean it by pressing the Sifa Key, right should be only ZWANGSBREMSUNG and you can't get out of it
    - The PZB restrictive mode is not integrated
    - Sometimes I get a 1000 Mhz monitoring even when the Signal is not yellow. I'm gonna trace that problem again
    - The Brakes are wrong set. First the E-Brake and the Trainbrake should be coppled in the Cab also. In this Model the E-Brake first brakes and then finally the Trainbrake comes too. But Right it should be the other way round. First all wagons need to brake, because the Brake on the Taurus is very strong and when you fully use the E-brake only and you are in a curve the Taurus could jump out if it's wheels. So first all wagons need to brake and then you can use higher E-Brake because the Wagons already brake.


    Neutral:
    - The Sound is not perfect yet, when you accelerate and you stop to accelerate (same with braking), the Motor Sound stops. But it shouldn't stop. Hope you understand what I mean. Also the makro (horn) is not that good, and I could only find one horn, not 2 different ones like in the real taurus. The Sound of the Pantograph raising is also not correct.
    - The pantograph raises too fast.


    Pro:
    - The Modell itself is very good
    - -Sifa works like it should
    - FAST UPDATES
    - Other functions like the roadrunner (beep beep :uglysanta: ) and the AFB etc. work fine


    Please don't get me wrong, I just want to help the model getting better. I'm not sure that all of this what I said is right, I just wrote what I think I know (from the ride of a Taurus). If you wan't to I can help you searching for some Horn sounds etc. At least I can try :)


    The TR function would also be cool. (over the brake levers). If you don't know, if you get a Signal like El 1 (stop the main switch), you can either Stop the main switch OR you can use the TR Button which is better for the computers in the Taurus as it slowly stops accelerating (don't know how to translate it better).


    PS: On the Side of the brake lever There should be a line that indicates how mucht he brake is pulled (matches on the lines on the cab near the lever).


    Thank you :)


    EDIT:
    Check this video out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5HMNr1H9Vk


    That's how a Taurus sounds...


    Here you hear a PZB Zwangsbremsung:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lhqBSKnlLI&feature=plcp

    Bin absolut deiner Meinung... Auf jeden Fall verbesserungswürdig... Aber die updates kommen ja flott... vl ja schon heute

    Eisenbahner im Betriebsdienst - DB ZugBus Regionalverkehr Alb-Bodensee
    Baureihenbefähigung: 111, 146.2, 147, 218, 245, 401/402, 407, 425/426, 611, 612, 628.4, 650

    Zitat von wolle001

    Und die noch nicht auklappbaren ausenspiegel sind auch supergelungen " hoffenlich kann man die mal ausklppbar machen

    Kann man leider nicht :( , ich hab schon den Hersteller deswegen gefragt. Er sagte das es zwar möglich wäre aber das dann alle Repaints nicht mehr funktionieren würden und das es für Railworks überhaupt keine Engine für Spiegel gibt, das bedeutet das wenn mann die aufklappen könnte, dann wären es nur Fakespiegel. So wie in PTP.

    Naja Spiegel sind ja Nebensache. Nice to have aber mehr aber nicht. ALLES geht halt nicht. Mir wäre lieber man fixt diese Bugs als Spiegel die zwar ausgeklappt sind aber nur nen Fake-Bild zeigen.


    Vielleicht liest der Autor ja hier mit und kann die von mir aufgezählten Bugs beseitigen.

    Einmal editiert, zuletzt von Alextma ()

    Zitat von Alextma


    Which means you do have to press wachsam, you always have to at 1000hz.


    YES but only AFTER I press Wachsam THEN the 1000 Mhz Light should come up. Not when I don't press Wachsam.

    Zitat von Alextma


    The game is a big pile of mess since it was released under the name "Rail Simulator", and it doesn't changed much since that. Some days ago we have tried to put some extra sounds in, and "something bad happened" until we removed. But we will see what can be done.


    Well okay we all know that error. But still it must be done somehow. And why can I clear it by pressing the SIFA button (ON A PZB ZWANGSBREMSUNG)?


    Zitat von Alextma


    Because its very hard to understand how it works (actually we do understand something about it, but if it's really works like that then this is a very "strange" (i mean not so useful) thing).


    Common, it is not that hard. Not useful? I can tell you what not useful is, a PZB that is not completed. It would SURE be useful and more realistic. I mean what's the problem when the Wechselblinken is active and I can't drive over 45...?


    Zitat von Alextma


    and as the signals are bugged, some plain HP signals without VR also sending 1000hz when they shouldn't able to do so. The loco not generates any 1000 or 500 hz events, it just receives them when the signal sends it.


    Well there was no Yellow/Red whatever Signal and no Speed reduction. I know how the PZB works. Yeah I think that were just buggy signals that sent 1000 Mhz while they shouldn't.


    Zitat von Alextma


    Independent wagon braking is not possible in TS2012(nor with tricks, we have tried), note that only it's name is "simulator", actually it's the most arcadeish train game after Trainz. Actually in real locos the computer regulated control (the brakes and throttle not reacting immediately) meant to prevent the jump offs from rails.


    But still the levers should be coppled. But I think you got me wrong. NOW the E-Brake startes and when it reached the maximum THEN the Airbrake comes too. Why can't you make it just that they start the same time? Well nevermind..


    Edit:
    See this Video, 2:24. EXACTLY What I mean. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…680&feature=results_video


    Zitat von Alextma


    It should stop, (see/hear the video you've linked), if there is no throttle, then no wear in gearing(make noise), no current in windings (which also makes noise), only the run noise which is permanent as it runs.


    Well you may be right here, sorry, but still I do here such a bad "cooling" Loop that sounds just weird because like in the video there isn't such a weird cooling sound in the cab, and you hear the loop everytime starting from new...that's somehow annoying :D


    Zitat von Alextma


    It's recorded from a taurus.


    Yes I know what video you've got from, you forgot just one thing. Check out 0:20 at the Video. The "ouuuh" one.(Guess that's air?).


    Zitat von Alextma


    Much slower already than other locos in game, if it would be more slower, then others would complain that it's too slow.


    Yes but that's still not real. Like on the Video, first the "ouuuh", then some seconds nothing and then he rises up.


    Zitat von Alextma


    But the game not simulates any of these.


    The SBB Route already has El 1 Signals, and the Three Corner Route also has those situations in real, hopefully they will include that (The authors of the Route should know, if not, between Hohenems & Altach)., too. Why not? Well it's nice to have but the roadrunner is also there so.. :uglysanta:


    And I found another PZB errors:
    After a PZB Zwangsbremsung You need to wait like 10 seconds or so until you can free you (wrongly with the sifa key). Normally I can do that asap with the PZB Free button.
    When I am in a 500 Mhz Beeinflussung and I driver over a 2000 Mhz one with BEFEHL 40, the 500 Mhz Beeinflussung is gone. Is that meant that way in real?


    And isn't there on PZB Frei/PZB Befehl also a "Zugbeeinflussung"?


    That's it


    EDIT:
    What do you think of this circuit breaker sound? http://soundcloud.com/wambon/circuitbreaker-sound
    Better quality than yours. *=)*

    "YES but only AFTER I press Wachsam THEN the 1000 Mhz Light should come up. Not when I don't press Wachsam."
    Not after, but before. The 1000hz come up when the 1000hz signal is received, not at wachsam.


    "And why can I clear it by pressing the SIFA button (ON A PZB ZWANGSBREMSUNG)?"
    You can't. You need to press wachsam too, however in next upload wachsam only will be enough.


    "I mean what's the problem when the Wechselblinken is active and I can't drive over 45...?"
    nothing. It works like that already if you exceed the target speed. The problem is WHEN this restrictive mode is activated, and why?


    "Well there was no Yellow/Red whatever Signal and no Speed reduction. I know how the PZB works. "


    If there is no 1000hz signal then there is no 1000hz event...
    You can see yourself the OnCustomSignalMessage function. That activated when that happens what's in it's name :)


    "Why can't you make it just that they start the same time? Well nevermind.."
    That's how it works in real? On the video, the driver just move them together, but it's not required to always do so. If you watch the brake cylinder pressure gauge, you can see that it isn't move, because the train using only wagon airbraking, (which is not possible in the game).


    "The SBB Route already has El 1 Signals, and the Three Corner Route also has those situations in real, hopefully they will include that (The authors of the Route should know, if not, between Hohenems & Altach)., too. Why not?"


    Because TS2012 can be scripted with lua script. Lua script is the most annoying and obsolete language that is used today. The 20+ years old Turbo Pascal is also much better than that, while it's very old :)
    And these problems are multiplied by RSC who broke every lua debug tools in the game two years ago in an "update". Simply, lua script is like a curse.
    But we will take a look on it.


    "Yes but that's still not real. Like on the Video, first the "ouuuh", then some seconds nothing and then he rises up."
    Nothing is real in this game. I can say not real things too: wheelslip is nothing like real in game, traction is nothing like the real, actually MSTS is more realistic. This is a game, an arcade game, not a simulator. And as i wrote, you maybe want this, but other would probably complain about it, that is "too slow".
    Some already complained about that it's too hard to drive this loco in game :) and the f4 toy train control can't be used.
    "After a PZB Zwangsbremsung You need to wait like 10 seconds or so until you can free you"
    actually if it happened because of overspeed, it is released automatically if the speed drops below the target speed. If it happens because of forgot acknowledge then you can release it instantly. However the airbrakes need time to be released... as in reality.


    "When I am in a 500 Mhz Beeinflussung and I driver over a 2000 Mhz one with BEFEHL 40, the 500 Mhz Beeinflussung is gone. Is that meant that way in real?"


    Yes but, 40km speed limit is still should be active until the next signal in real, which is not an option, as this thing is usually used in TS2012 to pass bugged signals which is very rare in reality :D


    About the looping problems, i suspect you are using EAX. With that only RSC can do anything (by replacing it to openAL). Or you can too by disabling it.

    Of course, the PZB monitoring begins when you pass a active magnet but the Sound "Zugbeeinflussung" and the indication lights starts/flashing up when you press the "PZB Wachsam" and not before.
    If you get a "PZB Zwangsbremsung" then you have to press "PZB Frei" to free from this and not "PZB Wachsam" or Sifa....
    The "restirktive Modus" begins when you drive for more than 15 secounds under 10 km/h this also includes stops. In all PZB modes the speed is reduced to 45km/h when only 70 and 85 is flashing, the speed is reduced to 45km/h when the 70 and 85 lights are flashing and the 1000Hz light is on, the speed is reduced to 25km/h when the 70and 85 is flashing and the 500Hz is active. Furthermore, the blue indications lights don't stop blinking when you drive under 55/70/85 km/h. "PZB Befehl" is also wrong. You have to press and hold this when you drive over a 2000 hz magnet. The "Befehl 40" light starts shining when you drive over the 2000hz magnet and stops shining when you release the "Befehl 40" button. You can look at this: http://www.tf-ausbildung.de/BahnInfo/pzb90.htm There are some information about the PZB.


    Some other things:
    Please look at this: Donation-ware: Taurus
    At the beginning the sander is active and you have to disable it, it has to be off at the start.
    At the beginning the circuit breaker is on, it should be off.

    Ganz liebe Grüße an alle meine Fans im Forum!
    ------------------------------------------------------
    Quality-Pöbel since 2011

    2 Mal editiert, zuletzt von AbsolutesChaoz ()

    Hmm I think it's kinda useless, you ignore 50% of the thing's I've mentioned too.


    I told you you need to press PZB Frei to stop the Emergency brake, not Wachsam. But Okay. Like you think.#
    The Brakes...I tell you STANDARD they ARE coupled. E-Brake AND Airbrake. It's true yes if you want you press the lever DOWN and then they are uncoupled. But still standard they ARE. That's what I wanted you to do. vR also gets it working so it must be possible somehow?


    Though I have never seen that the 1000 Mhz light shows up BEFORE Wachsam, I can not believe this. Neither in the ÖBB Talent or in such another Vehicle that I drove was that....that's the reason why the driver often press PZB Wachsam 2-3 Times because they don't know if the magnet is passed yet or not. This would be fine when it self shows up the light then you would know that the magnet passed. + Like Chaoz said, Befehl is wrong and in reality it doesn't stop blinking. I wanted to write that too but I forgot because of so much writing.


    Next time I am in the Taurus I'll have a look at that, can someone else confirm that?


    Zitat

    nothing. It works like that already if you exceed the target speed. The problem is WHEN this restrictive mode is activated, and why?


    No, the 85 Light only blinks. Wechselblinken is 70+85 both blinking and you cannot exceed 45 Km/h. Activated under/over 10 km/h.
    And when you drive over the target speed you get a "PZB Zwangsbremsung" and it does not brake you just under the target speed.


    EDIT:
    AbsoluteChaoz! YES! Finally one that knows how it works. See now you're wrong?

    Ok then, now i set the 1000hz light to get enabled only after wachsam (however this is a bit strange behavior).
    Frei lifts the emergency brake, now also changed.
    About restrictive mode: If i understand correctly, it's a penalty if the driver slow down too much? The opposite would be the logical, if the driver goes too fast then he gets this penalty.
    Befehl button will be changed too.


    The sander in not active at the beginning, it's at 0 (off) position.
    "At the beginning the circuit breaker is on, it should be off." i know, it will be set to that, see how many people will start to complain about that :)

    In my loco (ÖBB 3P) the sander is on at the begining, so the icon in the F4-Monitor is orange.


    The "restriktive Modus" is not a penalty it increases the security. ;) When you drive too fast, the PZB is also braking. The max speeds are 105 (in mode 55)/125 (in mode 70)/165 (in mode 85) when you drive faster than this there is a warning tone and after that the PZB applies brakes until the train is slower than the max speed, than the brakes are released.

    Ganz liebe Grüße an alle meine Fans im Forum!
    ------------------------------------------------------
    Quality-Pöbel since 2011

    Yes. Like Absolute Said The Retriktiver Modus is activated when Stopping or Driving over 15 Seconds in "Schleichfahrt" so under 10 Km/h and when you drive over the 10 again after stopping. Then 75/85 starts flashing and stops after 700m. Max Speed is 45 Km/h. If you see a green Signal you can press PZB Frei before the 700m.


    Still a Question, shouldn't there be a Zugbeeinflussung Sound after the Befehl40/PZB Frei? And have you checked for the right Zwangsbremsung Sound?